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Post by brijenjas on May 28, 2007 12:35:08 GMT -5
No news that I know of.
I have one to send back, (won't power on) I should be getting my replacement sometime later this week.
When I get it up and running I'll give them the serial # and find out what firmware / software versions it has.
That may be too late for you , probably should give Emotiva a call and ask.
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gonk
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Post by gonk on May 29, 2007 14:26:34 GMT -5
I saw a post just now at AVS indicating that units shipping today have updated firmware. Dan Laufman told the poster that Emotiva would be sending out a bug fix list tomorrow or the next day. I'll make a first pass at updating my issue list once we have that information. EDIT: robollie followed up with his AVS posts with a post in the May/June 2007 Update here.
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theophile
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Post by theophile on May 29, 2007 16:47:49 GMT -5
Have My UT Series Ordered!!! I spoke with Dan and he stated they've run on-going testing for the past week and all issues with the LMC-1 have been resolved! ;D ;D ;D We'll, I'll find out soon enough! Hope UPS makes delivery by this Friday so I can spend the weekend getting them hooked up and putting the new separates to the test! Will post my findings ASAP! Ted
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theophile
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Post by theophile on Jun 11, 2007 7:26:00 GMT -5
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gonk
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Post by gonk on Jul 15, 2007 21:38:48 GMT -5
Back in March, I started the LMC-1 Support Thread at AV123 by compiling a list of issues that were either under discussion or in question among LMC-1 owners. That list subsequently was repeated in this forum when it was set up back in May. Since then, there has been a great deal more discussion and at least two new firmware versions put into production by Emotiva (plus a third known to be in testing as of early July), but we still have a lot of questions. After updating the list heavily in early April, I had decided not to update it further until Emotiva had a chance to provide some official feedback. I received an e-mail on May 30 from Lonnie at Emotiva addressing some of the issues, but his answers were based on the older version of my issue list and generated as many questions as they did answers. I replied to Lonnie shortly after receiving his message and followed up a couple of times after that via e-mail, but have not heard a reply from them since then. After some of the most recent discussions and the ongoing lack of clear input from Emotiva, I figured I'd take a little time and make an update now. The list has been expanded from two sections (issues and questions) to three (issues, questions, and fixed bugs) - the newest section serving as a crude sort of "bug fix list" that will hopefully be replaced by an official list from Emotiva at some point. I'm posting the list here as well as at AV123. I may also post it at AVS. LMC-1 Issue List- Pro Logic II/IIx Music/Movie selection: I'm going to break this out of the "surround mode memory" item in my original post since it appears to be a separate issue. The LMC-1 appears to want to stay set to Pro Logic II Music mode even when the user tries to set it to Movie or Virtual. This was originally reported by cburbs in this thread and has been confirmed by several others even with units shipped in the last week or two (which have the latest firmware). Based on MerlinWerks' tests in late March, we have some more details. The PLII/IIx mode can generally be changed without problem when the input signal is analog or PCM stereo. You will need to enter the "Mode Select" sub-menu to make the change (the "Dolby" button had appeared in the firmware version used during MerlinWerks' tests). Changing the PLII/IIx mode for Dolby Digital sources seems to only work if you have the unit set to apply Pro Logic II/IIx to analog/PCM stereo sources. If you have done that and are listening to a Dolby Digital 2.0 source, you will need to change to a source that is either analog or PCM stereo in order to change the PLII/IIx mode and then change back to your Dolby 2.0 source. For Dolby Digital 5.1 sources, you need to change to an analog stereo source to change the PLII/IIx mode (PCM stereo sources will allow either Music or Movie mode selection, but not any other modes). This bug has gotten a bit mixed up on the surround mode memory confusion (see next issue) and Dolby button problems (see issue 5 below), so it's unclear just what the status of this problem is. Based on a recent (7/15) report at AVS from Doug917, though, it appears that this bug is still present with the firmware that Emotiva is presently testing. Here's Doug917's feedback: "I can set PLIIx-Movie with a 5.1 or DD 2.0 source by using the remote and going to the Menu/Mode Select/OK then use the up/down arrows to choose PLIIx/OK and finally used the up and down arrows to select Movie/Ok. I can not simply use the up/down arrows like with a PCM source. This works with no problems no matter if the source is 2.0, PCM, or 5.1. The real pain of this is when the unit is powered off, it defaults back to PLIIx-Music with a 5.1 source. If they would even just change this so it would default back to PLIIx-Movie with a 5.1 source when the unit was powered back on it would be fine for the majority of users. With PCM though, I can use the arrows to select Matrix/Movie/Music/Virtual now though...so that piece of the above issue may be fixed if I am understanding things correctly."
- Surround Mode Preference Memory: Surround mode "stickiness" appears to be missing from the LMC-1. Does the LMC-1 use pre-defined default modes for different source formats? I haven't been able to find a consistent pattern in the reports from different users, but there have been numerous comments (marjen, MerlinWerks, ...) that suggest that the unit defaults to specific pre-defined modes when encountering PCM and Dolby 2.0 sources - with no way for the user to "teach" the unit what their preference is for those source types. We could really use some official documentation on what logic is being used to select modes, and why that logic is in place at all instead of the more common (and much more useful) approach of remembering user preferences. MerlinWerks posted detailed summary here. His testing indicated that the LMC-1 employs a single global mode preference memory for all stereo analog and PCM sources (applied to all inputs), and that Dolby 2.0/5.1 decoding would default to that single global preference when the unit had locked onto an analog or PCM stereo source prior to detecting the Dolby Digital bitstream. Emotiva has stated that this issue was resolved (in late May, Lonnie wrote "this issue was resolved several months back and applies to the latest version of the software as well" in an e-mail to me). Lonnie's e-mail went on to confirm that the LMC-1 does not remember mode preferences per input, meaning that the mode memory is global for all inputs. He indicated that they had added "a couple of preset operating modes unless a specific decode mode is selected. For example; of a 2.0 DD stream is sent into the unit it will automatically select PLIIx (Movie) unless another format has been selected." This suggests that in at least some cases, even the global memory will not retain a user's preference and will instead automatically force a pre-determined mode to be applied. I have asked for a detailed description of the logic used to determine surround mode memory.
- Missing Center Channel with Dolby 5.1: This is an intermittent issue (fixed by toggling through modes manually to re-select Dolby Digital) that dates back to beta testing. This spring, Dan said that they had not been able to isolate and resolve this problem. At the end of May, Lonnie told me that this has been corrected by configuring the digital board to hold the decode mode fro a predetermined amount of time before going into scan mode, allowing for both faster acquisition times and a better lock with changing formats (thus preventing decode errors like this). In a few days of use with the mid-July test firmware, Doug917 reported no instances of this bug. I'm leaving it on the list for now, though, until we can get confirmation from an end-user who had experienced the bug previously (such as marjen) that it is resolved.
- Dolby EX displayed when Dolby 2.0 or 5.1 is decoded with no additional processing: Dolby EX appears to automatically "engage" with Dolby 2.0 sources. Dan has confirmed that this is a labeling issue and that Dolby Digital decoding is being applied only, resulting in two channel output. This has not been changed in the firmware as of this spring. Can this be a dongle-instaled fix later? Based on testing by danganh in early April, it appears that "Dolby EX" is displayed when pure Dolby Digital processing is being applied to both Dolby 2.0 and Dolby 5.1 sources, such that no surround back information is derived. This is true for both 5.1 setups and 6.1/7.1 setups that include surround back speakers - thus making it possible for users with 7.1 systems to mistakenly believe that Dolby EX is active when it is not. Toggling through surround modes eliminates the problem, and it is not possible to manually select Dolby EX for a Dolby Digital 2.0 source. In Lonnie's e-mail to me in late May, his response to this issue referred only to how Pro Logic II/IIx modes are selected with Dolby 2.0 sources, which does not relate to the issue at hand. More recently (mid-July), Lonnie told AVS user jv225 that he had not heard of this bug.
- Dolby Remote Button: This is a new bug, seen by danganh and MerlinWerks when using the latest firmware. MerlinWerks' experience indicates that the Dolby button will offer 3CH if pressed the first time a Dolby 2.0 source is detected, followed PLIIx, then not move from PLIIx no matter how many times the button is pushed. He has some specific details in this post. MerlinWerks test results (posted here) also provided some more detail on this issue. The behavior depends on whether or not your default mode for analog sources is Pro Logic IIx For Dolby 2.0 and 5.1 sources and a default mode of PLIIx for analog stereo sources, the Dolby mode button cycles through 3CH/AC3/DDex/PLIIx Music once before sticking at PLIIx Music (note that DDex should not be an option for Dolby 2.0 sources). After that, you must enter the Mode Select sub-menu to make changes. For Dolby 2.0 and 5.1 sources when the default mode for analog stereo sources is not a PLIIx mode, the only option available via the Dolby button is PLIIx. You must enter the Mode Select sub-menu to make changes. A firmware change in early June resolved this behavior for some but not all cases. New firmware currently being tested (as of mid July) has been reported to fully resolve this problem, so once that's in production and people can get their hands on it, this can be moved to the "fixed" list.
- Speaker Distance Settings Double: This was reported on AVS on July 12 by user jbush who received a new LMC-1 around July 9. Whenever a user entered his speaker distance (9 feet, for example) and accepted the setting, the value would double (18 feet in this case). The work-around was to select values that were half of your desired setting. This bug had not been reported previously and does not appear to be present in the firmware being tested to fix the Dolby remote button.
- Second Zone and Digital Inputs Don't Work Together Unless Second Zone is "Sync'ed:" It's common for surround receivers and processors with a second zone to design that second zone to be a purely analog system (meaning it only works with analog inputs, not digital). The LMC-1, however, is described as allowing a downmix of digital sources to two-channel analog for the second zone and record outputs. This was first mentioned as a feature in November 2004 when the LMC-1 was initially announced, but it also appears on both the LMC-1 product page as a bullet item in the feature list and on page 43 of the user's manual ("Any connected source input is available, but multi-channel digital source inputs are down mixed to 2 channel mode when played in Zone 2"). The same AVS user who reported the speaker distance bug (jbush) also reported that the optical and coaxial digital signals from his DVD player were not available at the second zone. It turns out that the digital input is only available with the second zone is set to sync with the main zone (such that both main and second zones use the same input, as dictated by the main zone). The manual makes no mention of this being necessary. What is not yet clear is whether 5.1 sources are really downmixed to stereo when "sync" is engaged. Since downmix would usually be done in the digital domain (upstream of the DAC's) there isn't an obvious mechanism for achieving the downmix when using the same DAC's for both the multichannel main zone and the stereo second zone.
LMC-1 Question List- Firmware Update Dongle: The firmware update dongle was first announced in mid-March and was described as being a few weeks away. The specific nature of this device has not been explained yet, although indications are that it is a USB-to-three-wire cable that will be used in conjunction with USB drivers and a firmware loader program to update users' LMC-1's at home. There are reports that this dongle can only be used on units shipped after some time in 2007 (possibly around February or March?) as older units require a hardware change to allow the dongle to update all of the processor's firmware. Information is needed on when the dongles will be shipped to existing owners, when new firmware will be available for download, and what owners will need to return their units to Tennessee instead of using the dongle.
- Firmware Version: Is it possible to include a change in the firmware that would allow users to display the firmware version currently installed? The various versions that have been issued are a source of great confusion, and once users can install updates on their own it will become even more difficult to ascertain what version is installed.
- Documentation: The documentation is in need of significant updating. There is no mention of the logic used for surround mode memory or the way bass management behaves when Pro Logic II/IIx is used in conjunction with a Dolby Digital bitstream in the current user's manual or on Emotiva's web site. The manual makes numerous references to the RRC-1 keypad (which is also listed as an accessory on Emotiva's site) even though it was never put into production. There is also a separate second zone remote described (and pictured) in the manual that is not included with the processor or available for purchase. The RRC-1 and second zone remote are both similar to the lack of explanation of how digital inputs can be used with the second zone - all three are items that could easily be seen as deceptive. Lastly, the number of issues in question and number of firmware revisions put into production really makes it important for there to be a good, comprehensive, detailed list of bug fixes included in the final firmware.
- Variable/Fixed Line Outputs: Several users have confirmed that the line outputs for recording are variable rather than fixed as indicated in the manual. Fixed outputs are typically preferred for recording. Is there a workaround for the variable outputs or a reason behind the decision to implement variable outputs?
- Customer Notification (Added 7/23/2007): It's loosely related to the documenation question, but why was there not some sort of notification provided to LMC-1 owners when major firmware revisions were developed and put into production? I've gotten confirmation from three LMC-1 owners (including Huffer and 'Nhan at AV123, both of whom have had LMC-1's since the beginning) that no e-mails were sent or calls made for the major firmware revisions (PLII/IIx and DTS-ES) or any other changes. As mentioned in my documentation question, there is no indication of the firmware changes, their impact on the product, or how users should go about having their units updated anywhere on Emotiva's site.
LMC-1 "Fixed" List- DTS ES Matrix/NEO:6 does not work with DTS 5.1 sources: This item was fixed with a firmware change that was put into production in the spring, allowing DTS-ES Matrix processing to be used with DTS 5.1 sources. It's worth pointing out that the LMC-1 uses the older DTS naming conventions. This means that it is not possible to engage NEO:6 with DTS 5.1 sources (NEO:6 being restricted to stereo analog or stereo PCM digital inputs).
- Intermittent Extended Signal Acquisition Delay: Dan confirmed that with some sources (satellite receivers being the worst offenders) the signal acquisition time can increase from the normal time of 2 or 3 seconds to 10 or 15 seconds. In a late May e-mail to me from Lonnie, I was told that changes to the clock speed of the DAC's and how the software handles data stream loss were made to decrease acquisition time as much as possible. The longest delay that Emotiva has reproduced in-house with these changes is four seconds using a satellite box, with normal times of less than two seconds. They have not been able to reproduce a 15 second delay. Based on that, I've moved this issue to the "fixed" list even though we've not seen confirmation from users yet.
I believe that these lists represent a fairly comprehensive overview, but since confusion and uncertainty have been central themes to the discussion I certainly can't guarantee its completeness. For example, there have been some reports of noise floor problems with high efficiency speakers (hiss audible at the listening position) which I haven't put on the list.
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gonk
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Post by gonk on Jul 23, 2007 12:17:06 GMT -5
I updated the list above today to ask about Emotiva's policy regarding notifying existing owners of firmware updates. From what I've been able to learn from several long-time LMC-1 owners, there would seem to be no policy in place to take care of this.
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Post by brijenjas on Jul 24, 2007 18:29:46 GMT -5
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gonk
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Post by gonk on Jul 25, 2007 9:43:31 GMT -5
There's been a lot of activity at AV123 in recent days, both in Dan's thread and in the LMC-1 support thread. The PDF response answers some questions, but leave a few things unanswered and identify a few unresolvable issues. I posted a few comments about the PDF in Dan's AV123 thread. The good news: the dongles are on hand at Emotiva; the driver, loader, and a new firmware version are almost ready; the "missing center channel with Dolby 5.1 issue" has been fixed; the Dolby button is fixed for most cases under the new firmware; the speaker distance setting problem was eliminated from current firmware a year ago (somebody got a unit with old firmware, apparently); the second zone wall controller has been removed from Emotiva's site since it was never manufactured; and plans are in place to notify existing customers of the updates. There are also plans to update the manual, but there's no time frame mentioned. Even with the comments from Emotiva, though, a few things remain unclear. Does PLII/IIx still get stuck in Music mode? The comments regarding this issue focused on the ability to apply PLII/IIx to Dolby Digital bitstreams, which was not in question. Which users will need to ship their LMC-1's back to Tennessee for the updates? Will a subsequent firmware release be coming so that users with 6.1 systems can get a resolution to the Dolby button problem? There are also a few things that have been confirmed as not fixed. Surround mode is global due to hardware limitations. This means that if you like your CD's in stereo and your cable or satellite broadcasts (which will be in two channel unless you are watching an HD channel that is offering a 5.1 track) in surround, you will have to manually select your preferred mode each time you switch between those sources. The software version number also cannot be determined by the user, which could start to be a headache as the dongles arrive in people's hands. I have begun considering removing myself from the LMC-1 discussions. If I do depart, I'll let you guys around here know.
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gonk
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Post by gonk on Jul 25, 2007 13:01:38 GMT -5
They've even got a forum now, set up much like this unofficial one (also hosted on ProBoards): Emotiva LoungeUnfortunately, Emotiva doesn't seem particularly fond of me these days, and rules are set to forbid the word "gonk" in either user names or display names. I've created an account under "g0nk" but don't know that I'll actually be using it.
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Post by brewta on Jul 25, 2007 19:19:05 GMT -5
They've even got a forum now, set up much like this unofficial one (also hosted on ProBoards): Emotiva LoungeUnfortunately, Emotiva doesn't seem particularly fond of me these days, and rules are set to forbid the word "gonk" in either user names or display names. I've created an account under "g0nk" but don't know that I'll actually be using it. Thanks for the link Gonk! It's a shame that they have taken this position as I feel that everything you have posted was helpful, non-threatening, and in good taste. I would like to take a moment to thank you not only for all the work you have done on this subject, made me decide to go with the DMC/MPS combo, but also your informational website. I read through the whole thing, ordered from Blue Jean Cables, and have referred back to it on several occasions.
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Post by brewta on Jul 25, 2007 19:35:06 GMT -5
I see at Emotiva Lounge that there is a thread with your name as the subject. Looks like it was more a revered consideration than a banning. Check it out!@
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gonk
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Post by gonk on Jul 26, 2007 10:26:21 GMT -5
Yeah, there was some misunderstanding all around. Seems to be all sorted out now, though.
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gonk
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Post by gonk on Aug 8, 2007 12:18:48 GMT -5
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