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Post by The Administrator on May 13, 2007 15:25:39 GMT -5
Yes, actually.
The Outlaw 970/7075 combo comes close, especially since they have a deal right now that includes the $299 LFM-2 subwoofer for $1298.
The problem with the LMC is that the biggest complaints are simple things that $199 HTIB receivers can do, yet the LMC struggles. No one is arguing that the LMC should have features that it doesn't, like auto calibration or bass management on the analog inputs. The LMC is dedigned to be a no-frills prepro, and there's nothing wrong with that. It just struggles with a few things that any preprocessor/AVR needs to be able to do.
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moe
Newbie
Posts: 1
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Post by moe on May 13, 2007 23:29:18 GMT -5
That is a great deal on the Outlaw,and they're great products,but when they get the price of the 970/775 combo down to $899 delivered it will be even closer(you gotta love competition).There is pretty much no denying Emotiva leads the pack for lowest price to your door in the Ultra combo,warts and all.
I do agree that the lmc operationally is odd,to say the least.The avrs I had years ago had some better features.I think those of us most happy with the Ultra use it as a stereo pre/5.1 dd,dts or analog multi ch.For these things it works great,at least mine does.
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theophile
Enthusiast
Professional Amateur-In All Things!
Posts: 17
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Post by theophile on May 14, 2007 7:30:01 GMT -5
Just an FYI. Over on AV123, Dan made a comment that they have been working on the LMC-1 and may soon have some answers regarding the problems. He offered no further details, but I'm going to be optimistic and hope for some good news next week. Indeed, this will be welcoming news! I've been on the fence for the past week concerning ordering the LMC-1, but I can wait a little more to see what the "answers & fixes" are! With a fully functional LMC-1 + LPA-1 (Ultra Theater Series), I believe my HT control\power end will be set for a Long Time!!! Then, the Axiom Epic 80 HT 5.2 will be next!! ;D Ted
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Post by The Administrator on May 14, 2007 9:32:00 GMT -5
I am truly hoping that we see some real results from Emotiva on the LMC-1. I am eagerly awating hearing *something* from them.
I think there are a lot of people reading these (well, not THIS one, specifically) forums and holding off on purchasing from Emotiva until the 'quirks' with the LMC-1 are worked out.
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Post by moovtune on May 15, 2007 10:56:49 GMT -5
"I think there are a lot of people reading these (well, not THIS one, specifically) forums and holding off on purchasing from Emotiva until the 'quirks' with the LMC-1 are worked out. "
You're right about that - I'm one of them - been waiting three months or so so far.
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Post by brewta on May 15, 2007 20:39:13 GMT -5
Well I talked to Lonnie via email and received a promising answer this morning. He stated that they are going through the code line by line to correct everything they can. Of course if everything is just the display issue than it would not prove very promising I suppose . Said they were shooting to correct everything with one more update. Just ordered some cables from Blue Jean Cables today and am seriously leaning toward the LMC-1 to compliment the MPS-1 in 5 channel config. As I mentioned in my previous post, will mostly be using it for movies, though with the comments I've read will probably start listening to a lot more music again. Unless I'm reading the list wrong, am thinking that they shouldn't rear their ugly head that often for me. Anyone care to correct me on that?
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Post by The Administrator on May 15, 2007 20:47:16 GMT -5
Here's my $.02. If two conditions are met, the LMC is a superb preprocessor as it is right now. 1) You won't use the LMC in a situation where alternating DD5.1/DD2.0 signals will be present. It's not a big deal with DVD's, but it can be with Satellite TV or HDTV, where a channel may be 5.1 for the program and switch to 2.0 for the commercials, or when different channels are presented in different formats. 2) (Debatable) You have relatively inefficient speakers. I say this because there are a few 'rumor threads' of the LMC having a higher noise floor on very efficient speakers. I have Axiom M80's, which are pretty efficient (91-95db) 4-ohm speakers. I did detect some noise during low signal passages with the volume cranked, but it wasn't enough to be really distracting. For a pure music or DVD environment, the LMC is awesome as is. For pure music environments with less efficient speakers, the LMC is outstanding. That said, I will wait with great anticipation that Emotiva fixes the DD issues. But not forever
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Post by brewta on May 15, 2007 21:20:47 GMT -5
I failed to mention in this forum, think I did on another, am running Paradigm Monitor 11's on the front, CC-370 center, and ADP-370's for the surrounds all v4. Impedance is only stated as compatible with 8 ohms. Have been very satisfied with the sound from them on my old Denon AVR 3200 but am looking forward to what they can do with the Emo equipment.
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gonk
Audiophile
Technical Host
Posts: 30
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Post by gonk on May 15, 2007 21:58:08 GMT -5
I hate to be pessimistic, but if they are just now starting to go through the code line-by-line, it may be a while before they've fixed all the known issues and done thorough testing of the resulting code to prove the fixes and identify any possible revision-generated bugs. Did Lonnie make any mention of the firmware update dongle's status or range of capability? I saw a post at AVS suggesting that the dongles finally arrived at Emotiva yesterday (almost a month behind schedule, since they'd anticipated the factory shipping them by air to the states on April 18), but the few comments from Emotiva about the dongle suggested that it would only allow user-updates to portions of the firmware - revisions to things like surround mode memory might still require that the unit be shipped back to Emotiva in Tennessee for an update.
As our Admin points out, the surround mode memory's global nature will really only stay out of the way if you use a single source and that source offers only stereo (either analog or PCM digital) output or only Dolby Digital output (2.0 and 5.1 mix is probably OK). PCM is rare on DVD's, but it is the only game in town for CD's (the handful of DTS CD's being the exception that proves the rule). If you use a combination of analog/PCM stereo and Dolby Digital/DTS sources, you are going to do a lot of manual selection of surround modes. It's particularly problematic for digital cable, as it's common for digital cable boxes to mix PCM stereo and Dolby Digital 2.0 (with some DD 5.1 tossed in for good measure if you have HD).
Paradigm speakers are probably going to be similar enough in efficiency and impedance to the Onix Rocket speakers that dominated the LMC-1/LPA-1 beta test that noise floor issues shouldn't be too problematic. The 30-day trial period should be enough time to determine that for certain.
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Post by moovtune on May 16, 2007 9:54:30 GMT -5
Now I'm confused. The administrator mentions there is an issue with 2.0/5.1 DD sources (like HDTV and the commercials in between), but Gonk you say it's probably okay. Since that is one of the main issues stopping me from picking up this processor, could we get a firm answer as to whether this is an issue or not from someone who has one and can test it. Thanks for your comments.
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gonk
Audiophile
Technical Host
Posts: 30
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Post by gonk on May 16, 2007 10:06:46 GMT -5
Based on Merlinwerks' testing earlier this year, the biggest surround mode memory problem came when switching from Dolby Digital signals to analog or PCM stereo signals. That switch included changing from one input (such as DVD) to another (such as CD or cable/satellite) since the memory is global. His testing didn't touch on what happened when limiting yourself to nothing but Dolby Digital 2.0 and 5.1 sources, but there are some other bugs in place that make that difficult anyway (Dolby Digital is improperly identified as "Dolby Digital EX" and changing modes with Dolby Digital 2.0 and 5.1 sources is not possible without first changing to an analog or PCM stereo source). You've touched on a good point - getting some additional specific detail about a purely Dolby Digital input scheme would be useful, but it may need to be done by someone with older firmware (the latest firmware introduced the "Dolby button" bug that makes it nearly impossible to select processing modes when receiving a DD bitstream).
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Post by The Administrator on May 16, 2007 10:16:51 GMT -5
My true and honest advice would be that if that's your only reservation about the LMC-1, you should go ahead and order it. Try it out for yourself and see how it works for you. If you don't like it, you will get your money back (less the return shipping, which in my case was $12). Really listen to it. Take the time to feed it different source material to see how the modes work. Really, there are so many variables, it's hard to say with absolute certainty that you will, or will not have a problem, or whether problems described as show-stoppers by some are simply minor quirks to you. I'll try to explain it as best I can. My biggest problem was really quite simple: Most of my TV channels are PCM stereo, which the LMC-1 had no problems what-so-ever decoding into DPLII properly. A few of my TV channels are broadcast with DD5.1 or DD2.0 streams. DD5.1 streams were usually picked up and decoded correctly, but DD2.0 streams were not. If I hit upon a DD2.0 stream, the LMC-1 would default to either straight 2-channel decoding or sometimes a DPLII:Music mode. When you attempt to change the processing to DPLII:Movie, it wouldn't allow it while it was actively receiving a DD2.0 stream. If I paused the source, cutting off the DD2.0 stream, I could then switch to DPLII and restart the source. It would then work, provided I did not encounter a DD5.1 stream, as that would 'reset' the DPLII processing mode. If someone had an HDTV package were more of the channels mixed DD5.1 and DD2.0 content, the problem would be magnified. Also in this situation the 'DOLBY' button on the remote wouldn't work, which was also a bit annoying. I suspect that the problem would be the same with a DVD, but I don't own any DVD's that just have a DD2.0 stream, so I can't say for sure. It all sounds minor, I realize. A small percentage of channels being affected, but it was annoying enough for me to earn a 'no-go' rating. Now I'm confused. The administrator mentions there is an issue with 2.0/5.1 DD sources (like HDTV and the commercials in between), but Gonk you say it's probably okay. Since that is one of the main issues stopping me from picking up this processor, could we get a firm answer as to whether this is an issue or not from someone who has one and can test it. Thanks for your comments.
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Post by moovtune on May 16, 2007 10:44:55 GMT -5
Most of my TV watching is HDTV channels in 5.1. I guess it wouldn't matter to me if, when the DD2.0 commercials came on, it switched to direct 2 channel or PLII music as long as it switches back to 5.1 when the show returns. But you're right, I should probably just get one and put it through its paces ... if for no reason other than being able to add to the reports on its workings on this forum or AV123. Although I'll probably wait to see what these new developments they're working on pan out to be.
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Post by islander on May 16, 2007 12:03:58 GMT -5
I want to see some issues resolved on this unit before buying a higher end Emotive unit but overall am very happy with SQ. It is suprising to me that if it wasn't for users like yourselves, who spent time on the functionality of this unit, I would not even know its shortcomings. I have owned lots of gear and consider myselt into mid-fi or high end hi -fi at a bargain price. For me the overriding issue that I have with the LMC is that it could be more user freindly. Is it bad no, but....plus a back lit remote would be nice. I have a logitech universal but it can't read some of the LMC's remote commands. Other than that I think this is a pretty cool unit. I want to use it for a couple of years and then put into another room. I need easy to set up and something that sounds great. Subjective I know...
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Post by brewta on May 16, 2007 21:12:09 GMT -5
I hate to be pessimistic, but if they are just now starting to go through the code line-by-line, it may be a while before they've fixed all the known issues and done thorough testing of the resulting code to prove the fixes and identify any possible revision-generated bugs. Did Lonnie make any mention of the firmware update dongles status or range of capability? Good points Gonk, ones I should have thought of! The way it was worded was like this: "Where we are right now is the code guys at the factory are going through the entire code (thousands of lines) line by line to correct everything that we can so that there will only be one more revision. Unfortunately this is not an easy task and it is taking a little longer than we would like, but we want to be thorough and get it right. So we are hoping to have the revised software by the end of the week. If you decide to purchase the unit prior to the new software release, we will send you an uploader so you can down load the new software and update it yourself." As you see it sounds like they have been working on the code for awhile and the dongles are either ready or will be by the time they are done with the code. Now I'm back to square one, the wife just asked why the TV isn't routed through the sound system since she has to turn up the volume to hear (speakers point to the side but may be going, it is almost 18 years old). Currently only have cable sans HD though digital is included, the TV upgrade was next on the list, another whole can of worms to open. I know I can send it back and order the MMC but I really want the upgrades supposedly coming in the next rev and hate to spend the extra cash for an interim piece. Of course we could be talking a year or more before they are released and early adopter bugs are worked out ;D. Anyway if I decide to go with the non-entry level any comments on my earlier question as to the differences between the MMC & DMC? I only noticed the HDMI built in to the MMC versus and add-on on the DMC and the balanced outputs. Am I missing anything? Large Offensive Armored Vehicles, Tom
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