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Post by madscientist on May 30, 2007 17:16:53 GMT -5
As far as taking a discrete 5.1 Dolby digital code and then running it through PLIIx, I don't get it either. I think most people don't fully understand what is going on here. To take a discrete code of 6 or 8 channels the processor has to mix them down to 2 channels and then break it back out again into 6 or 8 channels. The reason for this is because PLIIx was made to take stereo information and derive a surround effect, so DD and DDEX are discrete formats and PLII and PLIIx are derived formats. Personally I would rather listen to it the way it was post processed in the discrete code but that is just my humble opinion and everyone has their own personal likes and taste. Now having said that, the reason it is there is because everyone was bagging on us because they couldn't run their 5.1 code through PLIIx. So we made the change. Now this does not mean that is will automatically run in PLIIx mode. If it sees a descrete 5.1 code it will set up and run in the appropriate format until someone forces it into PLIIx. So don't stress on it, if you don't want it, then it won't be there. Hope this helps to clarify things.
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gonk
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Post by gonk on May 30, 2007 17:31:40 GMT -5
I don't know of an issue with being able to apply PLIIx to Dolby 5.1 sources (assuming the unit has the PLII/IIx update from last summer). You should only be applying PLIIx to Dolby 5.1 if the system has one or two surround back channels enabled (otherwise there's nothing to do beyond what Dolby 5.1 already has), but that's about all I can think of. The Dolby EX issue that I listed in my issue list didn't have anything to do with Pro Logic II/IIx, though, which is why I raised a question about your response to that one. The issue was in relation to Dolby EX being displayed as the active surround mode with both Dolby 2.0 and Dolby 5.1 sources. It originally came into question because EX processing should not be possible with a Dolby 2.0 source, but Dan indicated a couple months ago that in both cases EX was being indicated when the unit was actually applying only Dolby Digital decoding (yielding two channels from Dolby 2.0 and six from Dolby 5.1).
Dolby EX is not a discrete format. It is a matrix mode overlayed onto a discrete 5.1 format, and in that regard it is actually not as capable a matrix mode than Pro Logic IIx (particularly with sources that don't include EX matrix cues). Not only does Pro Logic IIx support discrete rear surrounds in comparison to EX's mono rear surrounds, but Pro Logic IIx is designed with logic to prevent the surround data from collapsing completely to the rear surrounds (something that can be a real problem for EX, particularly with mono surround tracks borrowed from old Pro Logic mixes).
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Post by The Administrator on May 30, 2007 17:44:42 GMT -5
madscientist, thanks for the input. It is much appreciated!
And, for the record, I don't know why anyone would want to 'downmix' DD5.1 into DPLIIx either, and that was never a personal complaint of mine. But I do think that an AVR should allow it.
My specific problem was wanting to watch those DD2.0 channels in DPLIIx:Movie, and to be able to switch seamlessly between formats.
It sounds like you guys did fix that, and that's great to hear. The simple fact that Emotiva listens to their customers is amazing in itself.
I look forward to eventually seeing a complete and official fix list!
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Post by mrgreg on May 31, 2007 1:06:26 GMT -5
Yeah, if the latest update at least allows it to default DD2.0 to PLIIx while keeping DD5.1 as DD5.1, I'm going to be very happy. That is MY only real complaint with the LMC.
None of the other issues bother me.
I do have a wishlist of features I'd like to see in future version (LMC-2, etc.) but I'll save that for another thread.
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Post by moovtune on May 31, 2007 9:41:51 GMT -5
I'm in agreement about not applying PLII to a 5.1 discrete mix. The mixers have spent days and sometimes weeks getting everything how they think it should be in the mix, and applying PLII to it is essentially remixing it electronically. I apply EX decoding to newer films sometimes to derive back surround info. It usually doesn't work for older films that were Dolby Surround mixed in the first place and have been decoded and repurposed to 5.1 (as Gonk has pointed out). I'm anxious to see the list of fixes to determine if I'll invest in the unit or not.
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gonk
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Post by gonk on May 31, 2007 10:16:24 GMT -5
Technically, applying Pro Logic II (not IIx) to a Dolby Digital 5.1 input is simply impossible - there's nothing for Pro Logic II to do, unless you downmix to two channels first (which is simply silly and also effectively eliminates Dolby 5.1). You can apply Pro Logic IIx to Dolby Digital 5.1 if you have at least one rear surround speaker, because Pro Logic IIx can extend a 5.1 source to 6.1 or 7.1. If there are no rear surround speakers configured, PLIIx should not be an available option for the user. of course, many products with Pro Logic IIx merge the two under a single umbrella (PLIIx), in which case it is appropriate for PLII/IIx to be an option with Dolby 5.1 sources - if rear surround speakers are present in the system.
The two questions here probably are "How is surround mode memory going to work with Dolby 2.0 and Dolby 5.1 sources?" (or just in general, really) and "Has the Dolby Digital EX display bug been resolved?"
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Post by mrgreg on Jun 7, 2007 17:40:46 GMT -5
I just spoke with Lonnie. He was great about answering all of my questions. Here is what I learned in regards to the update:
-The software is complete -They have the dongles -The last issue holding things up is the driver for the dongle. It is written, but is not yet "bulletproof". They don't want to send it out until it is 100%. -The dongle is basically a fancy USB to serial adapter. -He expected it to be available in a week or so. -It will be available through emotiva.com -The cutoff for needing software updates only vs. needing software+firmware is in the neighborhood of 4 months back. I don't know the exact cutoff ship date.
Things I don't know: -Will we have to send the dongle back after using it -What updates are firmware vs. software
Then I asked about the DMC-2. I don't know if I can share what Lonnie told me, but it sounds like this thing is going to be AMAZING. From what he described, it will have everything I want and more.
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Post by brewta on Jun 7, 2007 22:34:54 GMT -5
Then I asked about the DMC-2. I don't know if I can share what Lonnie told me, but it sounds like this thing is going to be AMAZING. From what he described, it will have everything I want and more. I also talked to Lonnie a week or so ago and he was excited about the DMC-2. Sounds like an incredible processor.
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gonk
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Post by gonk on Jun 8, 2007 17:13:12 GMT -5
It looks like there may be some interesting news on the LMC-1 by the time I get back from vacation next weekend. Perhaps by the time I'm back, we'll see the release of update software and some procedure for owners to get a dongle to perform the update (or for returning their older LMC-1's to Tennessee, assuming their unit shipped more than four months ago). I'd presume that such a release would be accompanied by a detailed bug fix list and some detailed explanation of how things like surround mode memory work. Considering the lengthy delay leading up to this point, hopefully everybody will be able to keep the dongles as insurance against the need for future firmware updates.
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